Dialogue on 'importance'...
12/21/2006

istoba: …let's talk about people who want to be left alone.

Why would they want that?

jASON: to think clearly without interruption or influence?

i: ahhh, yes. clear thinking. btw (<-- see, I'm down with the abbreviations) most questions I ask you I ask because I consider your point of view to be very unique.

j: hmmmm

i: and I consider mine to be.

j: another reason:

i: so put together we'll see if we can see things in a crazy new way. And maybe others can too

also, out of context sentences are awesome

j: to make a delicious bowl of paul newman's brand of lip-smacking popcorn and not have to share it...

j: mmmm mmm

i love that popcorn!

i: and inevitable in IM

j: (won't it be cool when we sell commercials in our stuff?)

i: random insertations of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese references

this sentence brought to you by Coke

j: no- we'd have to be more subtle

so as not to seem like "sell outs"

i: ®

j: see my above reference to paul newman's deliscious popcorn product

it sure is good

i: ™

that's good linkin too

j: hahaha

so

commercials are a form of communication

i: but you can be honest in your assessment of the value of Paul Newman's popcorn in life. As you have been

and not be a sell out

j: when you want to be left alone, you don't want any communication?

i: perhaps you want communication, but preferred in a certain form or way. What can be frustrating is when you can't articulate what form or way you want it. Classic not knowing what you want.

…
j: what kind of communication is desirable when you just want to be left alone?

i: That might be dependent on whether you want to be left alone because of prior communication - failed communication - or if there are other reasons for wanting to be left alone. I'll give an example...

at work, both in my 9 to 5 job and in my extracurricular computer work, I tend to invest myself fully into what I'm doing. It's easy to get pulled 10 ways that all demand (or I demand) equal investment, and being that I find or believe i'm not capable of delivering the quality of work that I would want to deliver to make my work worthwhile to me, then I tend to turn off and hope I can escape the...

i: situation

j: how unamerican

i: (laughs)!

j: just halfass it

then it's "beer-thirty"

wehw-hoo!

i: if I could drink 6 packs everynight, I would!

unfortunately, I can't afford it |-)

j: mmmm-mm

deliscious miller genuine draft

i: (laughs)!

j: do you think humans predilection is pro-communication?

like dogs

or more solitary

i: see, I love how you responded to my eloquently articulated thought with such simplicity; simple, but profound

good question

let me consider that for a second or 12

yes, yes I do

j: i just notice that some species are inherintly loners

and some are the opposite

i: please name these species

j: well

dogs, for example, are pack animals

wolves in paticular

wolves are one of the only animals that mate for life

there are very few lone wolves

i: my pet wolf is offended!

oh wait

j: and they are usually dangerous because losing or being kicked out of their pack drives them insane

i: you seem to know a lot about wolves

j: i know more about cats

which are generally solitary

i: cat's are interesting, because they're solitary, but they also want to come around every so often and remind you they're solitary

j: haha

house cats are kept in a state of perpetual adolescence

cats aren't solitary when they are young (most animals aren't), and when people domesticate them, it retards their maturing

it's weird

i: ... awaiting your next sentence, I'm enjoying a refreshing cup of NISSIN Cup Noodles!

j: it's like they're set up to be able to be friends with humans, or if they don't make friends with humans, they grow up and become wild

like that awesome new disney movie, the wild

i: no disney plugs

:)

just kidding!

I want to ask you a question about your comment about cats

j: ok

i: Yoou said when people domesticate them, it retards their maturing. I'm not clear on what way you mean

wow, that was a question put in a deference to ignorance manner

j: when people keep them and pet them and make them used to living with them

make them a pet

i: ahh, so you're saying that they're tendency to want petting is a consequence of their domestication

j: yes

it's like how their mother licks them

i: that makes sense

so wild cats don't want to be petted

j: no

they bite

i: but then, we retard them in a good way, would you say?

j: do you ever want to bite your cell phone?

i: or can we not say

yes, now that you ask, yes

quite interestingly

j: yes, it's a good retard as long as they stay with us

but they probably couldn't make it well in the wild like that

i: and intriguingly. sometimes I do bite it, and it slightly feels the way I think it would feel biting it, before I bite it

j: so

i: do you think humans retard each other? or animals retard humans in any ways?

j: humans have a predilection towards not being alone- companionship

however

something happens to make them want to be alone

some of them

drives them away from their fellow man

what would do thi?

*this

i: *considering*

j: in your personal experience...

i: I think it would be the start of not being treated (or not feeling treated) as a human. I think work is an excellent exacerbator of that experience

though I question the act of 'treating' to begin with. That tendency to 'treat' people, rather than act towards them spontaneously, also in my mind relates to the desire or want to be alone.

j: it has been my experience

and i've told you this before
that the #1 thing that all humans desire
is to feel important

that's what they want sex, power, money, fame for

the end result

however someone who isn't around other people can't really feel important

at least not in other's eyes

tho maybe they feel self important

i: or isn't it too, that it can work in reverse. Someone isolates themselves to feel important "No one understands me" infers they are special

j: that's true

but that's their last resort

i: ahh! well in some ways I must be in my last resort!

j: that's how they make themselves feel important when no one else does

i: you've talked about this before relating to 'depression'

j: it sounds like you feel too important

i: how it is about the 'self' rather than others

j: everyone wants you to do too much

doesn't that make you feel important?

i: in some ways. But there seems to be a distinction that can be felt in the difference between knowing people need or want your help, and knowing or feeling people want to know or be around you. In other words, if I can help someone fix their computer, and they know I can and I'm good at it, they desire my presence, but otherwise, there would be no desire or opportunity to meet and enjoy...

i: each other's company

and 'no' never meant definitively

haha

j: i think that's why your dad still does the job

because it makes him feel important

i: so do people embody what it is that makes them feel important? or is it something they develop or that constantly changes and grows?

j: i think it changes

like when people want to be famous

then they get famous, and it's not what they thought it was

and they get depressed

or want to be more famous

i: and fame then being the position where 'attention' or 'importance' is transferred from the individual 'adoring' the celebrity to the celebrity. Why then are there fans? Is it that it works symbiotically, that the fans want to be famous, and they want to receive or partake in some way the celebrity's famousness?

j: to an extent i think

especially these extreme fans

that latch on to a celebrity and make being that celebrity's fan a part of their personality

i: ahh... Why do you think 'importance' is so important?

sounds like one of those zen questions, but I think it's a good question

j: because it validates you existence

i: and by default people don't feel their experience is validated?

j: their existence?

i don't think so

look at a lot of older people
who feel like they don't matter

they get depressed and are ready to die

i: so lack of importance leads to death or deterioration in ways?

j: more deterioration i think

depression

i: what do you imagine are fundamental importances. You mentioned people seeking fame in expectation that this will make them feel important, and it's much like the idea and reality of people buying many things and searching their whole lives over for things that will fullfil them, but constantly running into dead ends

j: hmmmm

i think just other people validating their existence

i: but how does one validate another’s existence?

perhaps we are doing that right now, in our conversation

j: everything from receiving gifts (somebody likes me and got me something; ie i'm important to someone) to giving gifts (i made someone happy, ie i am important to someone)

(that's a christmastime one)

i: I like the Christmas tie in

j: to just having someone you like or look up to smile at you

or really

even just a stranger smile at you

because you know they have no reason to smile at you

i: which are spontaneous acts, primarily.

yes

j: unless they like something about you

i: in other words, unless they're attracted to some aspect of you... which again relates to their attribution of importance to that quality in or of you

j: yeah

i: so acts like that validate existence? Is it because they feel good to either the giver or receiver, or both? Or what other quality might that be, that validates existence

j: i read that little kids, before they can even talk much, like to do things that rearrange their environment, like push things around, because it makes them feel important

i: I suppose you could tie 'importance' to what feels good

like little gods

j: yeah

even if something doesn't feel good

say

you push an old lady out from the front of a moving car

and it hits you instead

that hurts

but you're a hero

and that feels good

heroes are important

everyone knows that

i: so altruistic acts can contain 'importance' that feels better in certain ways then the pain that would physically be endured. Do you think people make these calculations, or that they're inborn? Why do you think we're designed that way. To place such importance on feeling good, or importance? Is it the act of achieving importance that is what we seek? Why couldn't we be designed in a way where...

i: we just felt important

Is it the lack of it that makes the reality of it 'sense' able

j: i don't know

i've noticed that some people make themselves feel important by hurting other people

it's usually people who feel very unimportant

like young or old people

or people in crappy jobs or marriages

it's helped me to understand people better to realize that

when someone comes in the store and is being unreasonable, and yelling or making a big deal about something trivial

they're really just saying "i am important! acknowledge me!"

they just don't know how to go about doing that the right way

i: and do you think society is built up in a way where it contributes circumstantially to people feeling less important? i.e., is there an epidemic of this, or is it just random, or both?

j: i think there is

i also notice it a lot in bad relationships

stuff like one partner pretending to be (or even making themselves) sick to get more attention

(attention = importance)

i: yes. it does seem like a perfect garden for it to occur in, because relationship at that level represents in microcosm, what our relationships and experiences are like in macrocosm in the 'outside world'. Everything in the world involves relationship, but not always at a level where we're constantly around each other. Which is why I suppose, Home then Work, then Outside life, is the order of...

problems

j: i remember reading about a president- i don't remember which one (it was a bigger one), who's wife always got sick when he had important meetings with heads of state and dignitaries and made him cancel them, because she felt so unimportant in his life

i: wow! that's an excellent example... because it concretely combines both realities... that of the personal and the external

when you said a moment ago... attention = importance... that could be saying importance = awareness, would you agree?

j: awareness of what?

i: in general. Expanded awareness. Awareness of a rock isn't exactly coveted (although some people, if their awareness of the rock is beyond what we generally consider the awareness of a rock to be). I just saw a connection between 'awareness', which is what life enables for us... and importance, which we want so much

j: i see

that makes sense

it helps me understand a lot of people's motivations better- like Tim, for example

i: and awareness is one of those all encompassing words, because it refers to our basic 'consciousness'

j: he is someone who generally feels unimportant

i: yep

j: and his actions scream "me me me- acknowledge me!" a lot

i: and you think people could find more productive ways of either expressing or realizing an experience of importance?

is it that they're not educated enough?

j: not emotionally mature enough, i guess

some people are in situations where they don't feel important, and they're usually the ones who act out

other people, it's more subtle

i'm sure you know people who need to feel important

and express it badly

i: ahh, yes. I was going to say, yes, me. although I'm somewhat learned in expressing it. but I have my areas as well. I just wonder about them. Why they are the way they are... or where I picked them up, or didn't pick them up, ways of approaching or perceiving things 'better'

j: one thing about it taht i haven't made up my mind on is religion

i understand how religion can help someone like that

"god feels i'm important"

but it seems like you get this craziness- everyone hasto know how important you are to god

so you strap a bomb on your back and blow up a school bus

i: and God represents the ultimate importance, to many people

it's amazing how ideas can end up taking such precedence over practicalities. There you have a busload of real people, and ideas about god or life, and which one is more important to the bomber

j: but god doesn't validate your importance

i: how so

or how not so

j: you can have faith that god loves you and thinks you're important

but he never actually shows himself or tells you

and people crave more than that

so they try to impress their preacher

or their church

and have to outdo each other

and look down on other religions

"our religion is the important one- god loves us"

i: there's a lot of hierarchy

'levels of importance'

what if it is that God can't show himself(itself). What if God would want to, to enlighten everyone, but that (s)he can't

physically that is

or materially

j: well then, (s)he's not a very powerful god then

hahaha

even santa claus leaves you gifts!

i: precisely! but that raises an interesting word, at least as interesting and encompassing as 'importance', and that is 'powerful' or power. and they're very related I imagine.

j: yeah

i wonder if insects are like that

if they crave power or feeling important

we know that most animals do

i: really? how do animals

j: dogs have a pack hierarchy

and they usually like to please their 'masters'

cats too- i read that cats become very stressful when they are not allowed to lay on their owner's bed, because that's a rejection

now there's the word

rejection

the bane of being important

i: that's the opposite!

j: yup

the thing most people fear more than anything else

even you!!

i: we place such power in other people's hands

haha, no not me

:|

j: haha

i: I think I fear drowning more. It also depends on the person. I couldn't care less if say, drew barrymore rejected me

you'd never find me trying to be 'important' to her

j: that would make you important

everyone would be like "hey- you're that guy who drewbarrymore rejected!"

i: yikes, importance is killing me!

I can't maintain my perfect personality with you and your importance

:|

j: one thing that's funny is how people fall into the "pack"

and get their attention

like when you're around a group of people, watch them

there's usually one ringleader

i: I find that at work

j: he or she tells all the stories, opinions, and jokes

then there's usually one or two pandering weasels

i: why do the mass of people follow that ringleader?

j: they get their attention by agreeing with the ringleader, and the ringleader acts like they are intelligent

i: that's fucked up

j: then there's usually a bunch of other people who just listen and laugh

i: then there's the one guy plotting to kill everyone

j: they get their importance by just being a part of the group, and the ringleader paying attention to them

hahaha

oh yeah

that guy

i: I don't know where I fall in that small representation of civilization

j: well, there'sother people who usually hang with the group

like the person who seems not to care, but they're there anyway

i: and is anyone ever there who really doesn't care? or if they really didn't care would they not be there?

j: i don't know

maybe they don't have anywhere else to be

i: you must know!

if you don't know I don't know

j: maybe watching the group amuses them

i: and if I don't know!

*explodes*

j: rejected people who feel unimportant can become dangerous

hitler wanted to be an artist, but was rijected

i: that sounds like a warning on a package or instruction booklet for life

j: charles manson wanted to be a musician

i: I definitively don't want to be famous

I may want to play the piano.

ah shit

j: suuurree you don't

then you could come out with your own brand of popcorn!

i: only Paul Newman gets away with that

Paul Crim couldn't pull it off

j: hahaha

i: PopCrim

j: with your face right on the bottle

i: hey, it actually sound spretty good

j: "paul crim's tasty, lip-smacking...

buttery

i: those are good copy writing!

j: haha

i heard the lead singer of godsmack built his own exclusive club in new york

if he could do that

the lead singer of freakin godsmack

i: what an asshole

j: hahaha

just think what you could do

i: oh crap, I hope he doesn't read this

He'll kee'll me

j: or not let you in hisclub

rejection!!!!!!!!!!!!

i: meh

rejection with exclamation marks

that's hardcore

j: yup

do you work tomorrow?

i: for a short while

you

j: what time?

i: it's undecided as of yet

j: ahhhh

short while?

i thought you were drowning in work!

are you exaggerating just to feel important?!

haha

i: well, I have a door key, but no alarm code. So once everyone leaves, I gotsa leave.

though today everyone left and I was about to leave and just lock the door, but Sayer came back and I left the place to him

j: hmmmm

well, i have to go early tomorrow, so what's cool is that we can now go think about all that has been written tonight, and have an even more interesting discussion next time...

(next time):

Paul say: I've decided everything you said lat time was crap!

i: I edited some of your stuff, I hope you don't mind

j: hahaha

i: Paul says: I think I'm awesome! JASON says: I agree, wholeheartedly

j: jason says: i like small children and farm animals.

i: yikes!

j: (that's after your 'edits')

i: cool, well I wouldn't mind doing this as often as possible. I think it would be cool for each of us to pick topics that interest us, and focus on those... not barring spontaneity, but trying to look at the topic from as many vantage points as possible, seeing if we can shed some light on it that might help us or others or the world... you know, so we can feel important

and make money, and get hot chicks!

j: and reject them!

hahaha

"see how it fels!!"

*feels

i: something that helps me with hot chicks is if I remember they're just 'skeletons' under there

i: I think I said that already

We'll have to discuss repetition

smiling skeletons

j: with enough gasoline and a match, they can be skeletons again!@

i: hahaha

so... I leave the next topic to you. It can be anything, I'm sure we'll find a way to connect it to everything, which is the point

or we can mutually agree on topics

j: we should think on this one and talk about it some more, kind of a "wrap up", at first

i: or splice topics

j: then move on to the new topic

i: that sounds good... like a revisit

j: "paul's into hot skeleton babes!"

i: ahhh, sweet skin on skeletons

j: hahaha

i: alright, now it's jus tgetting out of hand

j: no better way for it to get

i: I think we should invite Tim too

he'll have lots of great insights!

j: now it's just getting out of hand

i: hahah

Tim can argue for God

i: God's importance

j: and britney

i: Britney is God, when airbrushed enough

which God condones

and encourages.

^top

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