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Truth in Perspective |
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Dialogue on 'evolution'... istoba: good evening! jASON: there you are i was just about to go watch "pootie tang" it's on cable i: liar! you could say I'm late, but really I just had to do a system restore because the new version of MSN Messenger Microsoft begged me to install was insanely buggy and would shut down every 4 seconds after startup! get your act together microjerks! have you really ever
seen
pootie tang j: no i: phew! j: but i bet it's awesome! i: I was gonna have to sign off :) i: god, I hate that smiley j: kill it! i: Sprint by far has the best emoticons if there is such a thing as 'best' emoticons j: i found a box ov vhs tapes outside my house and "pootie tang" is one ov them and "finding forrester" i: holy shit! the reject movie elf made a stashing ground out of your home j: hahaha and worst ov all... i: you must find 'im and make 'im pay how could it be worse! j: a rob schneider movie! i: aaahhhhahahghghahh11!!! wait which one j: "the animal" i: *keels over* although that strikes me as a movey you might like :) j: i thought god was maybe tellinng me "look at all these great movies you missed when they came out" i: that would mean god has a great sense of humor! j: did you ever see any ov them? i: I think the animal, somehow. neither of the others j: not even "finding forester"? i: movies I had completely wiped from my memory until you j: that sounds like one you'd watch i: what! why i'll strnangle you woah! I didn't know you could insert pictures of half naked chicks in MSN messenger! damnit, they make you pay for 'em j: hahaha oooo! i just looked in the box i: I'm laughing already j: and here's the best one i saved for last! (i bet you've wioped this one from your memory) i: don't do it! j: "corky romano" i: that has GOT to be the worse boxful of videos I have ever heard of j: hahaha well it has one movie in it you liked i: how did this box come into your possession? j: it was outside my house by the road, like it was left for the trash but it has one movie in it you recommended: "serendipity" i: have you seen that one? j: no i haven't seen any ov these that's why i thought god might have sent it to me i: serendipity's pretty good. But I haven't seen it in a long time so I don't know how it's standing the test of time j: ahhh yes speaking ov bad movies i went and saw "black christmas" i: never heard of it j: poor glenn morgan it's the new glenn morgan/ james wong movie i: it's amazing, I figured they could do no wrong j: this movie was bad bad i: bad? j: very i: bad as that one movie, house of the dead? j: not that bad i: "why did you do it.?" "To live forever!" that part kills me what did he say before it? something about some potion to help him live eternally j: you didn't do it right it was: "Why did you do it- to be immortal?" No- TO LIVE FOREVAAAHHHH!!!" j: hahaha i: wow, I should really watch that movie again. who knows how much better my life could be this very moment guess what i watched? guess go on guess j: ummmm... the rose bowl parade? i: nnnnnnnnnnnooo Rocky Balboa! j: hahaha i: did you see it yet? j: no i: what! you have to, must, absolutely, no exceptions must j: but i perceive it as being bad i: Yes, I as well, but I knew I was gonna see it anyway, because a movie like that, you just have to. And I can honestly say, it is in my top 5 movies of all time list! Believe it it'll blow you a frickin way (even though our movie tastes are generally incompatible, and therefore you should not listen to my advice) j: were you on cocain when you watched it? i: I wish! It would have blown my head right out of it's socket j: but... but... stalone! i: I am so laughing my asss off right now I just can't tell you how opposite it is to everything you think, and I thought j: stalone! i: basically they did everything absolutely the way they would absolutely have to do it for it to be as good as it could possibly have ever possibly have been, given the circumstances lol truth I speak truth, to power like stallone heck, even the critics gave it a B average! j: hmmmm i: me thinks you're contemplating whether to kill me j: i think you have been visited by the men in black i: :D j: you saw a ufo didn't you they scrambled your brain i: ^o) :D :P (bah) j: "nothing has been mistaken for a ufo more often than the planet venus" i: hahaha venus is the planet where the light beings emanate from! and women come from, according to Dr. John Gray, PhD he's a doctor and a PhD so there is absolutely no way to dispute his findings j: hahaha i: how come everyone and their frickin mother is a doctor and a phd these days is there some internet college that gives these qualifications out? j: crackerjack box i: and every doctor and Phd must, Must, MUST!! write a book and place Dr. and PhD in really big font right all over it j: did you know there's this publishing company that will publish your book if you pay them? i: then you can say you had a book published! cafepress does it too, for cheap! and t-shirts, coffee mugs, you know, the prestigious stuff CDs too! j: wow i: yep that's their tagline... Cafepress.com wow! just kidding how can I pick on cafepress after they mailed me a check for $50 for doing nothing for 3 years j: really? i: yep. Apparently I had used their site to offer a 'Rockefeller Can't Buy Me' t-shirt back in my ridiculous conspiracy days (and some people actually bought it), but more people signed up for their own accounts through my link and I get like 6% of the cut of their sales! that's why, I'm saying, we can extract catchy taglines from our conversations and put them on t-shirts like my idea for "you are close enough to read my t-shirt" in size 4 font in the corner of the t-shirt we'll be rich! hahaha j: a-ha!! i: I wish I wanted money that badly I wish I did j: "back in my ridiculous conspiracy days" i thought so i: :D j: men in black i: (A) (bah) everytime you say men in black! my mind turns to sheeps! j: hahaha it makes me think ov that x-files episode with jesse ventura i: of course! j: where that nerd thought mulder was a man in black that was great i: so ironic j: everyone kept saying "if you ________, you're a dead man!" i: a co-worker and I were discussing whether Alanis Morrisette's song "ironic", whether the lyrics and situations they referred to were really 'Ironic', and we concluded that they were in fact, not. but then I found a great example of irony, in a fortune cookie that I held in my hand and cracked open, and it gave me a fortune that whatever I held in my hand would bring 'good fortune' j: hahaha i: "Rain, on your wedding day." that sucks, but it's not ironic Or paying for a ticket to a free ride, that's just stupid ah, the ease in building a life on criticizing others j: do you think they'll release a new x-files movie in 2012? i: I was just reading the x-files entry on Wikipedia and it had a little paragraph about the back and forth with that movie, and Gillian Anderson's blog entry that was quite funny, yelling at her fans to get off her case, that she wasn't the one holding it up (I guess they apparently thought) 2000 frickin 12! that's crazy. I blame duchovny he's probably holding it up to begin pre-production on Playing God 2 first j: no no he's a director now i: a good director, who directs shitty shit shit j: hahaha and you aren't! how come? i: and he's lucky he's friends with Robin Williams j: was his movie better than yours would be? i: Oh I'll be there! and I know I'll have the best movie critic around (you) rate my work. But hopefully you'll just help me write it uncriticizable actually it seems like he just isn't the best at picking scripts, with the exception of course of The X Files. although he probably didn't pick that one, per se so enough of my ranting! j: yeah i: what shall we discuss i: catepillars j: davidduchovny i: not
David Duchovny j: maybe you could hire him to direct the movie i: that's actually not a bad idea! and we can put stalone in it! j: as the horse at the beginning i: laughs j: hmmm we should discuss... evolution i: that was actually disingenuous, I actually only smiled at the horse line, I didn't actually laugh out loud. Jeez frickin me evolution the movie? or the act j: with duchovney! i: laughing that one I did lol j: personal evolution i: you mean... ........ ................ ...................................... .............................................................................. j: well i: CHANGE! j: like you said earlier "back in my ridiculous conspiracy days" personal evolution i: YES! I did think to myself just the other night, I want to talk about conspiracies I feel I have a lot to say on that retrospective and insightful stuff having played both sides of the field, more than twice a flip-flopper if you will like john kerry j: and since you're the only guy who's ever successfully snuck in to the bilderberg meeting and recorded it i: quiet! they'll kill me :@ j: (heh heh heh- now I'll find out if that stuff's real) i: laughing laughing where to start with all of it it's just so vast you know? I mean there's the major conspiracies, and the minor conspiracies and the mid octave that little squiggly circle note it's quite a symphony where'd you go? j: i got kicked offline i: microsoft! j: yup i: you've heard of dropped cell phone calls, but dropped instant messenges! hey, I like that word, messenges still there j: i am so how can something be so important to someone at one point in their life, and be fairly unimportant at another point ? i: what gave importance? The person, no? why are things inherently important? Like conspiracies for instance? I'd say they're still very important to me, but not in the 'naive' way I perceive they were before j: or christianity sports a certain philosophy a certain band or style ov music i: definitely change. But I don't know why things change. Other than that that's how nature is designed, but humanity doesn't agree on a purpose for nature, except in a spontaneous and indirect way in saying that the purpose of nature is for humans, which really isn't saying a lot when you think about it, because it doesn't say much of 'human nature'.... and this human nature involves change... a desire for difference. Although I think that desire for difference is always in a pursuit of perfection which would be a state where someone wants nothing to change j: but what i'm talking about is a certain kind ov change i: because it's perfect j: evolution it's gradual not like changing a belief because you discover you were incorrect that happens fast you thought you could fly, then you jumped out a window but an evolution i: and learned you couldn't, quick! well you have some thoughts on the subject, what's your take? j: if you looked at yourself in 1999, and 2001, you wouldn’t be much different but then and now you're probably a lot different you were a christian conspiracy theorist i: (laughs), now That's funny j: now you're an ungodly bank robbing sodomite i: hahaha! God saved me! I wouldn't say I was ever a 'Christian' in the typical sense, though, but that's beside the point. What do you think causes this gradual change j: you liked creed! i: or prompts it I did, and I also don't regret that I did, because at the time I really did like them. even though it obviously doesn't do anything for me now j: hahaha i think some ov it has a lot to do with outside influences the people you are around i: how so j: if you get around different people you have different influences that's a little bit ov it but not the biggest part (except in weak minded individuals) i: what do you think 'influence' is? j: brainwashing hahaha i: put in a nicer way :) do you find the gradual change/evolution, intriguing, or upsetting, or a mix? Or something else j: intriguing unless i don't like the change then it's crap haha i: haha even intrigues change! j: true i: so what does it say of the thing that was intriguing, but is no longer? j: but as i say, i'm talking evolution an example: i: define evolution by example j: you take a normal, average white person i: uh oh j: one day they get mugged by a black person it scars them, and they become a racist that isn't evolution i: what is that j: i'm not sure what would you call it? i: it's not quite influence. It's fear, but I can't put my finger quite on the way it plays out in that scenario fear could cause immediate and/or gradual change j: maybe it is evolution in a sense, but that's not the kind ov evolution i want to talk about i: cool let's hear about the kind of evolution you're referring to j: you have evolved a lot, from when i first met you but like i said- it wasn't really fast i: correct j: are you aware ov the evolution? i: oh my yes! although I guess I don't put a large enough distance between how I define change and 'evolution', although to some extent they're intertwined I'm interested in what you're getting at, even though I can't quite make it out. yet It's intriguing! j: so it';s not like one day you go "I can't believe i've believed that all this time- that's stupid. i'm gonna believe this now..." i: not quite, but in a little bit I can point to one example of it that way j: it's usually one aspect ov your belief that changes, then another, until eventually it's all diffferent i: ah, I see little puzzle pieces slowly replaced j: isn't that how it works with you? i: I believe so, though I have to honestly say I've never paid much attention to the way it evolves, so much as the fact that it evolves, and the wonder of what the new 'evolution' is in front of me j: and it seems the younger you are, the more you evolve you evolve more than i do i: and our parents less! j: but tim and J seem to not evolve at all i: precisely j: i wonder if that's why you die you stop evolving i: isn't there a terminology for that? you could be onto something there. For instance, sometimes I feel so young, that I simply can't imagine myself at 40! Not only can I not imagine it, but I can't believe I'll ever get there. And it is at times that I fell I'm not evolving from an uncomfortable place, that 'dying' becomes an intriguing possible alternative j: very interesting i: in fact the feeling itself is like dying my experience from the moment I opened the door when the IRS came to arrest me, was one of death, or what I imagine death to feel like but then when I was out, back on the street waiting 3 hours for Judy to pick me up, I never felt so alive! doing absolutely nothing j: and you think that's because you weren't evolving at that time? i: yes, but then the surge of life thereafter, because I was obviously majorly evolving! j: or because something from a less evolved version ov you was encroaching on the you that is now? i: could be that too j: but other young people also don't seem to evolve like mark, for example i: I remember a few times imagining what going to jail would be like. It seemed like a really interesting experience to have, and that I would want to have. But under the conditions it actually occurred in, it was nothing like I Imagined, or found interesting Mark! He signed onto MSN Messenger the last time we talked or he was 'away' j: and other people seem to feellike they have to force an evolution like matt i: interesting parallels, or crossing examples j: but it seems if you don't evolve, you stagnate i: but can you stimulate evolution? or does it just occur naturally? and if it stops occurring, can you restart it j: well, like i said about matt- i don't think it's good to try to force evolution it needs to be natural a product ov learning, reacting to your environment, maturing, etc. i: true. Many times I intently try to avoid all of those things, because I fear the risk of failing; I don't yet fully trust myself and my natural reactions, which I think inhibits maturation, but then somehow, also keeps one 'young' j: you can possibly keep from evolving by blocking out all experiences i don't know i: I once read in a
book refuses humans do this too. Enough failures and they give up permanently it seems, for some people other's keep trying, strangely, and successfully in some cases! j: but what about someone who won't evolve i: naturally? Or who tries to block the natural tendency to evolve? j: either one like, take in comparison, you and J i: well if they naturally stop evolving, the question arises in me, why? Why should nature determine this person gets to evolve, say well into their 50s! and this person stops at 27. And if it's someone who blocks the natural tendency, again I refer to the fear aspect. There's some reason they believe evolving is bad I think in J's case she feels she is fully evolved. However when I talk with her she ALWAYS and persistently refers to evolution as always occurring, never ceasing. Even though, by all definitions, if one was fully evolved, there wouldn't be any more evolution. Evolution implies continuation, perhaps endless, or it can also imply moving towards a goal i: so she has conflicting versions of what evolution is she believes aliens are fully evolved, and will help evolve us to higher dimensions but again, with the higher and lower, and these forms of measurement's relation to each other, and the 'end result' that seems to be ignored or not considered but is this not the type of evolution we've been discussing? j: so we seem to have determined that fear is a direct influence on evolution i: oh my yes! I think and I think very strongly about that j: it can make you stop evolving or evolve more, i suppose i: yep, depending on whether you're afraid of something moving you forward, or moving you backward j: right i: but why fear anything? Wasn't it our trusty president (which one) that said there's nothing to fear but fear itself j: well, i can understand pain i don't like pain i: i hate it j: so i fear doing things that cause it i: and that causes me pain too hating it it's a closed loop type of thing j: i even fear discomfort i: but pain is involved in birth j: i think "if i don't get enough sleep tonight, i'll be tired (uncomfortable) tomorrow" i: but to counter that, it's also not generally involved in 'growth' j: for example i: yep j: i could probably do a lot if i slept less but because ov the fear ov discomfort i don't (well, sometimes i do) i: but couldn't you also define it in different terms. Like I like sleeping because it makes me feel good. So I go to sleep early. Even though I would like to stay up and do things because that feels good. You weigh which feels better, which seems a bit different than defining it as fearing the discomfort of sleeping and missing out on things you want to do. it's perspective based, but then again, sometimes even sleep isn't satisfying too, satisfying j: well, we seem to have come to one thing so far: fear is the enemy ov evolution i: lol j: it either stops it, or makes it evolve unnaturally i: 'retards us', to use a quote from our last conversation j: so what nurtures evolution? i: would you say, companionship? compassion, empathy j: what banishes fear? knowledge, experience? i: LOVE and despite
what
Donnie Darko FEAR AND LOVE!!! DAMNIT! j: but i: but then, I don't
even
know what love is j: what if you fear love i: haha! which I think is probably more the case than either of us truly know what if you love fear j: are you unhappy with any ov your personal evolutions? i: I sometimes think I am, or I try to convince myself I am as justification for my imaginings of how things 'might have been' j: some evolutions aren't good i: which is the perfect time for me to provide that example I mentioned earlier devolutions! j: hahaha when people become bitter close-minded i: yes! Do you think that's evolution, just in the opposite direction j: that's the kind ov evolution caused by fear and pain i: so it brings us back to defining things in terms of good and bad, with varying shades kinda the crux of the human language I'd like to provide that example I mentioned... j: go for it i: Early in my childhood, I'm not sure precisely when, I made a decision I can very distinctly remember, the first time I heard the information (from my dad) about the revenue collection system. I remember making a choice at that point, that I would explore this information. Not because I thought it was true or false, because I just took it on the basis of how it was presented (just information), but gradually I... ... became invested in it. That investment took the form of believing that the system was bad, and needed to be changed. This developed for some time, until, through a series of events such as the event in LV, and even before that (in not enjoying my job or deriving satisfaction from my work) I came to a point where I revisited that original place where I acquired the information, and I realized how... ...small and insignificant of information it seemed at the time, for it to have turned into the major events and influencing situations that it became. Being back there, I realized I never held a belief for any of the information, in the sense that it was an innate conviction. It was just information. And as easily as I held on to it, I could release it, and did. that was a big turning point in my life j: but this also goes back to what i mentioned earlier about influence i: even though at the time, even that decision (to release the information) just seemed natural j: i'm sure your dad influenced you to some extent i: I think so, but I don't know in what way. I wonder if say, brandon had originally told me of it, if I would have invested myself in the information or what if I read it in a book? Or intuitively come across it. j: well i: intuitively I still feel that the system is messed up, but I don't have an investment in any one way of changing it j: do you believe the same stuff as you did, but just not find it to be very important in the overall scheme ov things? i: the latter, but I don't know in what way I believe it differently, but I do I kind of found the balance between both perspectives, the enforcers' and people who believe the system isn't established fairly but that opens up a whole new can of experience worms! That of taking a stance j: yeah i: instead of playing both sides what's the difference between balance and mediocrity? I don't know j: balance requires concentration and talent mediocrity is the opposite i: what about natural balance? is there concentration involved in that like it feels natural for me to accept both sides and stay in the middle, or do the right thing in both maybe that's what balance is. Doing the right thing in both j: i guess the only thing that i don't like about evolution (going back to your question about if it intrigues or upsets me) is that you wonder if the things that are so important to you now will be important to you later i: well said j: it's like it makes them less important, if they won't always be important i: that certainly captures a feeling, that I know you're referring to j: however one thing about them- they will be a part ov what's important to you later, because even if they aren't important to you later, the fact that they're important to you now will add to your evolution, which will influence who you are later i: yes, it's like a building, with each piece making up the building. When you get near the top, all you have is memories of the parts at the bottom, and what you went through to put them there, and what they were really like, but as to what you witness they (and the new parts) are contributing to (the building) you're not sure what those old parts mean in relation, retrospect.... like not knowing... what the building actually IS yet j: what happens to the building when you die? i: it's a great question! One we'll all get an answer too. But it's probably the most intriguing (and anxiety causing) question out there i: because we associate dying with pain lots of pain j: the only thing i can come up with, is that your building goes away to make room for someone else's building but where does it go? i: why does it have to go anywhere? What if it is right now where it always is and always has been, and it's attachment to your 'body' and the senses you 'experience' through, are the thing that goes away, somewhere else, into a grave j: and you keep evolving maybe that's what death is another evolution i: I'd definitely hope so. If like in life, you wake up one day and you're just alive, why should we imagine that in death, one day we just wake up and we're dead. I think sleep is what gives us this idea. Because in sleep there is no experience. Unless you're dreaming j: yeah tell me something that you used to place a lot ov importance in, that you don't find to be very important now i: well I'll try to give a few; one I already mentioned is anything 'taxes'... another would be 'women' (thankfully!) although I'm still hopelessly attracted to them. I think my relationship with J helped me a lot in not putting so much thought and value into 'being with someone'... Hayley also helped teach me this, and I say that to both with great respect and gratitude. Definitely quite a few... ...artists Live Arid
Radiohead j: conspiracy theories i: I think there are even some things that I used to place a lot of importance on, that I really disliked that I did, that I wanted badly not to, somewhere along the way got my wish, and they were taken away so completely that I don't even remember them! but I still like me a good conspiracy theory! I can stay up LATE reading all about WTC it's very intriguing to me j: hahaha well let’s go with taxes i: I just think some are crazier than others j: that used to be a pretty big deal to you i: yep j: take me down the evolutionary ladder with that what was the first step in you evolving away from that being important to you can you put your finger on it? i: I think I can definitely relate it to what you said last week about 'importance'. Having the information that taxes are illegal, or that the system that authorizes them was never in fact authorized, is/was unique in my book, and I thought that as unique, I was helping others with it. It's a form of sharing that not only is fun, but also makes one feel important, because it's possible to think... "I have access to something others don't", control, albeit in a very benign form along the way... some people didn't react to the information with any impression, so it probably made me wonder why. Why to some people was it not intriguing. And that probably to some extent began the intrigue of how some things can go from intriguing to not intriguing, and also the intrigue in what others find more intriguing than what I find intriguing! I think CH would definitely fit the bill as one of those people. Why is he so invested in the opposite of what I was? We're both human. His actions opened the door for the possibility of me understanding his actions, and perspective, and that was very intriguing to me, obviously more so than the initial intrigue I had. Or perhaps my initial intrigue had faded j: but you still believe the same way it's just not that important to you any more i: but I never saw it from a different way I suppose they cancelled each other out! they killed each other j: so CH’s influence helped i: I'd say so but also not to diminish other factors My heart wasn't in it j: what about all the people like W and C scattering when they seemed so into it before i: that intrigued me to no end! j: hahaha i: they talked the talk but didn't walk the walk j: they were into it when the money was rolling in! i: I do believe they believed in it j: me too i: but they obviously never considered the consequences just like I didn't and to some, like my dad, even the consequences only reinforce the belief j: yeah i don't mind paying my taxes i always have my main agreement with the company is with privacy i believe the government is way into people's business too much and these trusts can help fight that i: with no good intentions? into people's business with bad intentions in other words j: i don't know but even if it's with good intentions i: but nevertheless they should just stay out of there j: what if the government is overthrown in 10 years i: that'd be marshal law j: and the new, malevolent government has all this info i: ah, gotcha j: i just don't think the government should be so up in people's privacy i: I wonder why they think they should NATIONAL SECURITY! j: hahahaa i: those two words have singlehandedly become the counterpart to newspeak thoughtcrime. j: true i: NATIONAL SECURITY answers everything what the hell does it even mean? j: fear i: and just the fact that a conversation like ours just appeared on the NSA radar, is just ridiculous j: it did? i: they'd say 'safety', not fear I'm not sure which it is j: control it's all about control i: I think if you mention National Security in your speech or text, it comes up and you said something earlier about bombing, so that sets it off j: and i don't mean necessarily in a malevolent way but control i: what other kind of control is there? for money, power, prestige? j: well like you control your dog so it doesn't go bite your neighbor i: ahh, to control us criminals j: right i: innocent until proven guilty one nation under god j: with enough control, there are no criminals i: life liberty and the pursuit of friday night movies j: which sounds nice but i don't want to give up that much freedom freedom hahaha a bug in every phone a camera on every street corner and in your home i: too bad jefferson's old words aren't regarded with any fascination and respect anymore, about people who give up a little freedom for security deserving neither... I think that was good ol' jeffe j: hahaha yup words to live by so i: or if you're the media, ignore j: what are we going to discuss next week? i: the landscape is wide wide open j: landscape eh? i: we could touch on actual conspiracy theories, and reasons behind them our perceived reasons j: that could be fun at least until the men in black come to visit... i: then we could talk about them! unless they zap us j: hahaha i: and suddenly our discussions turn stupid then we'll lose are readership! noooooooooooooo j: "did you see what paris wore to the oscars?!" i: what's that quote from? j: what we'll be discussing after the mib zap us i: ahh... well, I can say that I've seen enough of paris without her clothes on, that no arrangement of clothes (small or large) is likely to surprise me anytime soon of course, after I'm zapped, who knows how I'd respond! j: hahaha i: oh, it was delightful! in homer's voice j: hahaha well i guess i'm going to go pay attention to those others who need it i: woah, pat robertson "God told him of mass killings in 2007!" j: huh? i: there was some news line that ran across the bottom of messenger now there's a guy who should be monitored! j: definitely i: no, no that's wrong Paul, even Pat Robertson deserves his freedom j: creepy AND crazy hahaha i: alright then. same time next week, or even before if you're interested. j: coooool well you get some rest i: ditto talk with you later! j: i'll talk to (or at, as the case may be) you later... i: laughing chow
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