Comparisons are a part ov life.

i: But they're rife with suffering and pleasure. It seems like there should be a way to see the connection of everything as primary, and then enjoy making choices without fear of making the wrong choices.

j: Not much in the way ov choices without comparisons.

i: Right, but I suppose there are comparisons in an enjoyable way, and comparisons in an unenjoyable way. For instance the comparison of personalities between humans, creates unpleasant emotions in the body.

Why do we have those

i.e., comparisons between humans and human action.

j: We don't just have them

We celebrate them

Every sporting event is a comparison

"who's better"

Stronger

etc

i: So do you think, in the way that a sporting game can be fun, and reasonable parties can respect each other (win or lose), in that way we can approach life, and enjoy it?

j: Sometimes.

As long as people don't take it too seriously.

i: But that seems to be the primary problem. So many things are taken extremely seriously. Like war for example, and 'right' and 'wrong'.

j: Comparing right and wrong?

i: Yeah

It seems pointless to discuss on first glance. i.e., it has no end Sometimes I wonder if the perpetuation fascination with the hope of finding an all encompassing 'solution' or 'meaning' to life, if it isn't all just a warm excuse for laziness in hope that a magic bullet will solve all one's problems.

j: Laziness?

i: Yes. like hoping someone will come along and do your work for you. For instance, at work I try to find ways to make things easier, or more automated, so they can be finished faster. But the end to that means is because I really just don't want to do the work in the first place.

j: That's why you get paid.

i: I despise doing it for that. I'd rather do something I love and not get paid, but the reality of living on the streets, or the faith necessary to step out on a limb to take a risk to see where that leads, it's just not quite strong or compelling enough to me, yet.

j: You pay for things you like

Like ice cream!

No one pays you to eat ice cream

Or play video games.

i: But even ice cream, and sugar, they're literal physical analogies of ultimately unfulfilling experiences. Sugar is essentially empty calories. There's no depth. It's like airbrushed women. They look nice, but it's a fantasy.

I think that's an interesting comparison; Fantasy to reality. Because so much of our reality is based on fantasy.

j: But the taste is real.

i: In many good ways

And so is the feeling and awareness of unfulfillment

Temporary satisfaction

Which is really just distraction from the underlying issue, which seems to be an evasive and justifying aspect of the ego... whatever that is.

j: Ice cream is a distraction?

i: Yep

It's a conspiracy by the illuminati.

j: I can think about the meaning ov life and eat ice cream at the same time.

i: But can you have a thought about the meaning of life that isn't contradictory?

j: Yes

"all thoughts about the meaning of life are contradictory"

i: There is this feeling I imagine many people feel, of being in possession of a screwed up life, and an anxiety that comes with that. Guilt, mixed with a depression from not knowing or understanding how it all came about.

j: But...

Who decided what a "screwed up" life is?

i: Exactly. Where did the idea and comparable example from?

j: And what life is it being compared to

i: But yet, it appears to be there

There are schools of thought that contend it's not there at all.

j: Well, let's start with what a non-fucked up life would be.

i: It's just an illusion that is being reinforced with belief.

j: Describe a non-fucked up life.

A life filled with balance, wisdom, foresight, strength of will and character

?

What else

i: Consistency.

There's another word for that... maybe it's character.

j: You mean consistently being the best you can be?

i: Not exactly. Just consistent at being the way you should or want to be. That doesn't really say anything about what 'should be'. Where should ideal ideas of shoulds and perfections be derived from? Maybe a blend of inner and external expectations... or ideas or fantasies of what's possible. In other words it's easy to believe it's possible to be perfect, even if...

... we only maintain that perfection is the opposite of what we feel is wrong.

j: Maybe you get it from your family.

i: It could be acquired from many sources just as equally though.

It seems like words, in as much as they refer to things that exist in reality, that ordering them in a certain way would lead to clarity,,, but I wonder if that's really probable.

j: Well

What is perfection?

i: Do you think all words refer to some aspect of reality, or are some of them sincerely made up

j: The perfect action

Perfect is a sham word

haha

But I’m using it

i: :D

Perfection is a lobotomy!

j: Is there a such thing as perfection?

Most people would say that nature is the closest to perfection

So then, are animals perfect?

i: I would point to the universe as an example. But once humans get involved, for some reason it seems lost.

j: Animals make mistakes.

i: Really?

Like

j: Like the squirrels you see squashed on the road because they ran out in front ov a car.

Or animals who get eaten by other animals

Or caught in traps.

i: But isn't that part of natures perfection? The closed order system. that certain animals have to be eaten by others in order for the whole system to continue operating.

Maybe our idea of perfection comes from thinking reality could be a different way than it is. i.e., we could have created reality better than it was created.

i.e., all bunny rabbits would live forever!

Never eaten

Never run over by jeeps.

j: I just thought ov something

Animals aren't distracted

You mentioned distractions earlier

Humans are easily distracted

But animals aren't distracted

You know why?

i: Enlighten me

j: Because they don't have anything to be distracted from

They don't think or wonder about the meaning ov life

They just do it

What's natural.

i: But then why would nature evolve humans into being... who can think and drive themselves crazy with these questions? If not to have the questions be resolvable... so a new evolution can take place.

j: Because we are not natural to the earth

We were brought here by aliens.

i: hahaaha

But anything that's part of the universe is natural in a universal sense. Can you think of anything that exists outside of the universe?

j: Reality tv

i: laughs

"Yes. My forthcoming album. Which rocks so hard, this universe is not even capable of understanding it."

j: hahaha

i: Maybe we should just meditate more.

Too easily distracted.

There's so much that's enjoyable distracting.

So many distractions to choose from.

j: Maybe distractions ARE the meaning!

i: Possibly

That would jive with the 'one can't find meaning by looking for it' Taoist sentiment.

j: The meaning is to experience everything.

So you aren't going against the meaning with distractions

Unless

You keep being distracted by the same things.

i: But what is experience? I can experience a building from an infinite number of angles at an infinite number of moments in time... but what does that experience amount to?

j: You have to constantly try new distractions

New experiences

But why are some experiences unpleasant

You don't want to experience them

Like going to jail

i: Yes

j: And therein lies the meaning ov life

Experience and change

hahaha

We've solved it!

i: laughs

j: Now if you can just take everything as an experience

And a good thing

Even if it feels bad

It's just an experience.

i: But suppose one's intuition says that the meaning of life is to recognize the 'sameness' in things, instead of the change. The permanence, instead of the variation.

j: And necessary

Hmmm

i: But I guess even then your description works.

j: But everything changes.

i: Because if I experience the oneness.. no matter even in change, I can find the thread that connects it all

Whether I'm in jail, or on a roller coaster ride. I realize the sameness behind all of it.

And that points back to the self. Because the only thing that's ever the same in a given situation you're in, is you.

j: I think everyone would be better off if we could accept all life's changes and experiences

But it's hard.

i: Everything perceived outside of oneself is change. Everything inside is realizing the unchanging.

The change outside is to realize the unchanging inside?

j: If you're in a hospital in pain, undergoing chemotherapy dying from cancer

That's just another experience

Why kan't you rejoice in it?

i: Because it's painful.

j: I just kan't imagine it

That's the problem

i: Huge problem

j: But if you could

i: But doesn't, logically, pain just inform you what to stay away from?

j: Or that there's a problem.

i: How so

j: Well, you get a kidney stone

Your kidney hurts

It's saying "there's a problem here- you'd better look into me."

i: Sounds sound. but the confusing part is everything that led to the kidney stone, that we weren't aware of, we didn't know it was going to lead to that. So in life, so many things are unknown we don't know where they'll lead... and we're trying to figure out as much as we can so we can predict things so well that we won't have to worry about these things anymore.

j: Sometimes I think I do things unconsciously to cause problems, so i can experience them.

i: How do you know?

Intuition?

j: I don't know for sure

But I think all people do it.

i: Girls!

j: I think we need to experience everything

And we don't want to experience bad stuff

So we set ourselves up

Look at Tim.

i: But we can't experience everything at once. So wouldn't there have to be some 'end' to the experience.

j: 99% ov his problems caused by his own self.

We can all see it

But he kan't.

i: I wonder if the same in reverse is true.

j: You said that your intuition tells you to do things.

i: Do I cause 99% of my own problems..... or do we all, but some of us hide it better.

j: And you purposely do the opposite.

i: I feel compelled to do the opposite, because it's easier.

It feels more natural, even though the effects feel very unnatural

Therein is a very palpable contradiction.

j: But is there a part ov you that wonders if you can handle it

A part that wants to find out.

i: My intuition says no

j: hahaha

Why do people eat such bad food

When it makes them feel bad.

i: Because it tastes great!

j: And sick

And hurts their health.

i: God bless flavor factories.

j: I think we subconsciously want to experience everything

Even bad things

And we set ourselves up

Yup

Even you

You set yourself up, you bastard!

i: But why do we want to experience bad things? They make us feel very 'unalive'

You'd think we'd want to feel alive!

Not unalive

hahaa

j: But would you appreciate feeling alive if that's all you ever felt?

i: Yes!

j: Plus you learn things

i: psshh.

j: You change because ov bad experiences

You evolve.

i: What does learning mean if there's no 'end'?

j: Maybe that's when you die.

i: Sorry, I'm trippin out on that.

j: But through your experiences-

Do you wish some of them had never happened?

i: At times and in some ways, yes.

j: Don't you understand more now though because of them?

i: And some days, no.

Actually, honestly, I feel like my 'awareness' increases, but at the same time, and in the same proportion, so does confusion.

j: Tim always talks about how he used to be.

i: It causes there to be new things to be confused about, without resolving the previous things I was already confused about.

j: How he used to be very proud, always had to have the best clothes, and was kind ov 'stuck up'

Holier than thou

Then having been through trying times

He's so much different now

He seems better to me

Still messed up.

i: hahaha

j: But more down to earth.

i: Alright, alright, ok... then

How does one get better at 'accepting' and 'allowing' all experiences to happen, without judgment.

j: If you just hadn't have taken the truck away from him...

i: Hahaha

j: See

He did that to himself

Totally

100%

Everyone can see it

But him

i: still laughing

I did remind him many a month about payments.

j: He set himself up.

i: But I don't fault him, because I do the same. So I empathize, yet still hope, for him, as for me, that we can overcome those self-sabotaging tendencies.

So plant an answer.

j: You have to accept every experience as something positive.

i: Scientologist!

j: Unless

You kan't learn something from it

Or grow from it.

i: Could it be that we learn even if we don't realize we're learning?

j: Then you have to wonder why it keeps happening?

i: Isn't that what learning is? Learning what one doesn't know.

j: Well, I’m talking about if you keep sabotaging yourself in the same way, an experiencing the same thing over and over.

i: I wonder how we know we know then How do we know we've learned... unless we already knew what it was that we were going to learn, so we could compare it against what we got/learned.

j: With some things it's easy

Learning from mistakes.

i: I think learning is very interesting

I get excited about learning!

j: It's just hard to think ov bad things as positive

Very hard

I try to

i: But frustrated often because I feel I'm not 'making it'. Not succeeding at learning.

j: But your emotions get in the way.

i: I really want to learn about emotions though. Which is also part of the point of these conversations.

j: I was talking about my favorite emotional response the other day with someone at work

"righteous indignation."

i: Funny that one didn't end up on my 'feelings' list !

j: But it's so great!

It's like a drug

Like a little 'high'

You see people on it

It's funny

And you notice that the people who get off the most on it are people who don't have much other joy or happiness in their life.

Just like someone with a drug problem.

It'

It's always soccer moms

hahaha

Like at wal-mart the other night

I was leaving and there were 2 cars in front ov me.

i:

j: And one was letting someone out and taking a long time about it

So i went to go around them

And the car in front ov me

Slammed on their gas and zoomed up, almost hitting us both

I saw the woman driving it

She had the same look on her face I'd seen before

At the zoo, on a peacock as it was hit by that little train that circles the park.

I could feel her righteous indignation.

"I was here first, and he's trying to get in front of me and take MY parking place!!"

Even though I was just trying to leave

She was high on it!

i: But it's also an equally disturbing high. It's a mix of good and uncomfortable... but uncomfortable in a weird way.

Have you felt it?

j: Everybody does

I try to control my emotions

Some people just have at it

It's highly amusing

It makes people make real asses ov themselves.

i: What if 2 people are righteously indignited at the same time!

j: That happens sometimes

You see it a lot in stuff like abortion or death penalty arguments.

i: Or the people in line for PS3s.

j: hahaha

i: The wii crowd was much nicer.

It's like Hummer H2s vs. Toyota Prius

When's the last time something really great happened, that surprised you and made you feel joy, happiness, and gratitude?

j: I found a twinkie on the ground the other day.

i: haha.

j: It wasn't very dirty

No ants

i: Maybe that's too idealistic of a combination of emotions to feel at the same time.

j: Well

i: No ants!

j: There's this tape I have

And it has a lot ov songs on it

I’ve had it since i was like 15

And I’ve managed to find every song on it but 1

But each time I find out who the band is and the song, I feel elation!

So I still have 1 left

Last bit o elation

Someday

haha

i: Savor that one to the bitter end.

j: Ahh yes

I find joy in lots ov little things

I woke up this morning, and my cat was laying on my chest, and it was purring, and the purr was vibrating my heart

That was cool

Then I was reallly thirsty

And the water was sooo good!

i: That's the best!!

j: Yup

And if you haven't pee'd in a long time and need to reaallly bad

i: No soft drink compares in a situation like that.

j: haha

i: laughs

Here's one last thought on the matter...

If at work, everything's just as it is... fairly boring, mundane, but yet 'real'... I mean, it's happening, undeniably, and it's ordered, undeniably. There are things to be done, and people doing them... no matter how ridiculous they seem. Why is that the norm. Why wouldn't the opposite be? Why wouldn't absolute and utter joy with every little thing to be done (with the occasional crappy thing)...

... be the norm.

Does it have to do with the law of thermodynamics

What's the term?

Things moving to a state of ....

Breaking down or something

There's a scientific term for it

I think it starts with an 'e'

j: Entropy

i: Yes!

j: ?

i: Entropy

j: That's chaos, tho.

i: But does nature defy entropy? since it's constantly regenerating

j: hmmm

I don't know

That one I don't know

i: I won't hold it against you

:D

j: Maybe you're fighting your life as it is

In comparison to as you think it should be

And that's where the discomfort comes in.

i: But isn't that the norm in the majority of lives. People dislike their jobs. Why is that the norm?

Couldn't it just as easily be the opposite?

j: Yes

I suppose

But picture this:

You are in the middle ov a river

A fast river

You are walking against the stream

Fighting it.

i: Do I have beef jerky with me?

j: Now, if you would just let go, it would push you backwards, and you want to go forwards

But

If you would just let go, and stop fighting it, it would push you backwards (where you don't want to go), but you could, while being pushed backwards, swim to the shore, get out ov the river, and walk up shore

You would be farther back

But you would get to where you want to go

You never would, or would take a lot longer if you fight the river

i: But what if you swim to land, and there's the fiercest wind, really a tornado blowing you back. And everywhere you go there's this reverse force to where you want to go? Should you just let it take you and maybe be surprised that it doesn't end up in the death we imagine it might be?

j: If there's no other choice?

I guess you'd have to

Or perhaps you could fashion a giant kite out ov leaves

hahaha

i: Or isn't the moral of many stories to work hard, and when you make it to the end, it'll all be worth it

Like bush's philosophy!

j: I don't believe that

i: hahaa

j: enjoy where you are and don't worry so much about the end and 'making it'.

i: I think a corporate CEO wrote that children's book.

j: yeah

i: Easier said than done. But I will try again.

j: Good man

i: Press the reset button

This time I'll kill Shinook on the advanced level of MK4.

j: otherwise a nice heart attack is waiting for you

But maybe that's what you subconsciously want!

i: I wonder what the most pleasant way of dying is.

I wonder if there's a way to die that feels great!

Actually, no, I don't really wonder that.

j: I hope so

i: hahaa

As do I

j: Ready for bed?

i: Oh my yes.

j: Must enjoy that.

i: Yes, I love sleep

j: haha

i: I'm great at it too

perfect at it.

j: I like to wake up at like 3 am, and lay there relaxed a minute before I fall back asleep

i: mmmmmm

j: Well

i: 3am moment

j: Sleep well

i: ditto

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